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Kevin Martyn's avatar

There is a dramatic difference between the two. The paint shop is the same, but not much else.

Elon musk has said one of the biggest mistakes they made was buying an ice vehicle plant in California and trying to modify it for electric vehicles. it ended up costing more than a new EV plant, and could never be as efficient as a ground up EV plant. EV production differs even more dramatically now. You can save up to 40% of your labor costs with a properly designed EV plant versus a plant built around ice vehicles.

Ice vehicle plants generally start with an enclosed unibody design and have to get everything in the car through the side door openings. Of course the engine goes into the engine bay from the top, and all the wiring cooling etc meets up there. You raise things up to put transmission underneath, and have things low to engine in from the top, and need access from bottom & top to mate the two.

EV is a skate board design. All the keys stuff goes on a flat open platform. Motors, electronics, wiring and batteries. Ideally, the skateboard is made up of three main parts, the front and rear are cast pieces connected by a mid portion structural battery pack. Seats are installed on the platform, then an open bottom unibody from above is married to the skateboard.

A true EV will have a large frunk. If it does not have one, it is a modified ICE vehicle, built on an ICE production line.

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Kevin Martyn's avatar

Toyota is in much bigger trouble than you suggest. This is why their CEO just fell on his sword and resigned, reaching to his grandson to take over the company, saying he had lost touch.  Their only EV, the BZ4X, is not a true EV at all but rather a modified ice vehicle. it is built on an ice production line. They won’t have a true EV for at least three years.  They wasted too much time on hydrogen, which would never make sense in a consumer vehicle. The time for hybrids has passed. 

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Grayson Hoteling's avatar

Thanks for your feedback, they are definitely late to the game. You're right about the BZ4X which contributes to the higher production cost, and its ultimate failure as a competitive EV. Totally agree on hydrogen, but then again many companies even Amazon put research into things that are total failures quite often. I respectfully disagree about PHEVs due to the ability to put batteries in more vehicles - for more, see the end of https://betterbatteries.substack.com/p/cars

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Jesse's avatar

Why does everyone think there is a fundamental difference in the assembly plants for EV vs. ICE. In an assembly plant it is at most a dozen or so pitches with different hoists and attachments.

The engine vs motor vs battery sub supplier parts sure, but a battery pack, a motor, a transmission and and engine are all just big modules that need to be lifted in and attached.

Don’t underestimate Toyota. They are extremely small c conservative, so they are very unlikely to be first in line to try anything, and they won’t at scale until they are confident they can do it well. On the other hand they have built more electric power trains than anyone else...

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